Video Lectures from School of Humanitarian Socionics by Victor Gulenko¶
These are transcripts of video excerpts from socionics courses taught by Victor Gulenko (School of Humanitarian Socionics). These videos were recorded and posted on YouTube in 2012. Many can be found at this channel.
Lecture On Dual Relations¶
V. Gulenko: What is the essence of dual relations in your opinion? Why do all schools of Soconics consider them to be the best relations for life together?
Audience: They support weak functions, cover for them, and unlock the strong functions.
V. Gulenko: Dual relations allow people to not waste their energy and efforts on doing something that they aren’t good at and instead redirect all that energy to that which they do well.
Audience: Also give a sense of personal value …
V. Gulenko But is a dual appreciated right away? No, from a distance a dual isn’t appealing. This type of relation develops only within close distances, only then you begin to appreciate your dual. If you’ve run into trouble and your dual has helped you, you sense he can provide help further on. Until you sense that returning energy, that he/she is off-loading problems from your shoulders, duals are usually not appreciated. That’s why dual appeals the most when you’re facing difficulties, but when you’re feeling fine, no problems, no depressions, nobody is oppressing or coercing you, you’re doing what you like, in this case where are you going to be pulled? Not to your duals, not to your quadra … but to what will be you attracted?
Audience: Identicals?
V. Gulenko You’ll be pulled to you Club, that is, Humanitarians will be attracted to other Humanitarians [NF to NF]. It’s no longer up to your vital deep core values, but your interests and hobbies: “It’s interesting for me to spend time with him”. We have talked about why duality is considered to be the most comfortable for life relations. But, as with any relations there is the other side to this coin. Tell me, in which ways are dual relations deficient? What are their shortcomings?
Audience: Encapsulation?
V. Gulenko Yes, there’s loss of practice because people grow so close together. By the way if duality is very strong, often time people become very much alike each other, then it becomes difficult to tell who is who, even who’s the extravert and who’s the introvert becomes unclear so much they adopt from each other and become alike. The problem is loss of training of weaker functions. If you are “torn away” from your dual, you’ll have a heap of problems that you’ve forgot how to solve because previously someone was doing all of this for you. Especially, in my opinion, I’m emphasizing this, this is not as difficult in a married couple as in a dual relation of mother and child. This separation will inevitably occur - the child will need to leave his or her mother, start new relationships with other people. But the dual side will be pulling him or her back - it’s like an adhesive that will make it difficult for the child to break free.
Audience: Can’t the dual train their partner on the weaker functions?
V. Gulenko shakes head The dual can give advice and explain, but it’s much easier to take it up yourself and do it for the other. Therefore there is very little training. The break up of a duality thus brings much anguish and suffering for both people. If duality was very strong, and one dual has departed from life, the other one doesn’t remain for very long.
Audience: But can duals strike up contracts at high levels of relations - you teach me this, I teach you that?
V. Gulenko This is a logical approach. We will talk later about this, in which relations it makes sense to logically talk things over. In dual relations, this doesn’t make sense. There there is a need to feel each other here. This is more important in duality than logical negotiations.
Relations Between Duals are Dialectic¶
V. Gulenko If duals have united into one pair, tell us, is this a consonant or a dissonant union?
Audience: Dissonant from which point of view?
V. Gulenko From point of view of relations between them. Is it easy for them to merge into one? Is such synthesis easy?
Audience: It’s not easy for them to come together, but after it’s difficult to separate them … [inaudible conversation].
V. Gulenko This is right. This means that the nature of dual relations is an antithetic synthesis i.e. synthesis of the opposites that struggle with one another but then unite: this is called unity and conflict of the opposites. This is the formula of what kind of thinking?
Audience: Dialectic thinking.
V. Gulenko This is it, relations between duals are dialectic, they both love and hate each other. This is unavoidable. Dual relations are synthesis of the opposites. This struggle is unavoidable.
Is there any way to get rid of these painful contradictions between duals, in principle?
Audience: Um, may be, perhaps, likely not …
V. Gulenko In principle it’s impossible. It’s possible to smooth them out, by correct distribution of roles in dual pair for example, but it’s impossible to remove them. This, precisely, is life; these contradictions give dual relations a special tint, without it they would have been boring. Periodically contradictions arise, they get resolved, come up, get resolved, come up, get resolved again - this is dialectical contradictory synthesis. Considering that this is the union and the struggle of the opposites, duals often come together over conflict. At first, they fight one another, raise scandals, sort out relations, then suddenly they feel a pull towards each other. This is how it happens, such is nature.
Thus, it is not possible to use formal logic to understand dual relations. They can only be understood through dialectic logic that understands that even if they are fighting they are still one whole. Only this kind of logic is able to explain these relations. Someone might say: “We have total harmony. We don’t have any disagreements. There is nothing to smooth out.” I don’t believe it, because I know that dual relations have to go through these intensifications. Without them, you will get bored by one another. Without this there is no raisin, no spice, it would be uninteresting. This would have been static relations, while dual relations are introverted, that is closed-off autonomous relations, but also dynamic relations that are always changing.
Conflict Relations¶
V. Gulenko Here’s another question. Let’s talk about the opposite pole: conflict relations. All school of socionics also agree that this is the opposite pole, that is, these are least recommended relations for family life and personal relationships. But does “conflict” mean loud arguments and heated confrontations?
Audience: No. [inaudible]
V. Gulenko That’s closer to superego relations, they don’t get closer. But what does “conflict” mean in Socionics terms?
Audience: Something is accumulating, accumulating …
V. Gulenko This is right - it’s inner irritation. If people of “conflicting” types are near each other and they are already irritating one another, you may not see this from outside. It could flare up, but it will happen suddenly, even often be unmotivated. Why do they irritate one another? Observers usually don’t understand why isn’t happening, and the person himself or herself usually doesn’t understand.
Audience: Because they have different rhythms of life?
V. Gulenko That’s completely correct. Their energy isn’t compatible: what is good for one is bad for the other. In dual relations this is compatible, what’s good for one is good for the other. But here it’s impossible to part ways, they end up obstructing and hindering each other.
Audience: And the values are different?
V. Gulenko Yes, here we have double contradiction: their temperaments are incompatible and their quadra values are also incompatible. This is why conflict relations fall into the tier of worst relations. They don’t entail scandals and loud arguments, but rather a build-up of inner tensions and irritation that could splash out, which is usually what happens, as sudden sorting out of relations that seemingly came out of nowhere.
Positivists and Negativists¶
Audience: Can you say that someone is a positivist or negativist in life?
V. Gulenko In life, well, you probably think that this is like a pessimist and an optimist. Not necessarily. It turns out to be more complicated than that. It would be easiest to explain on the example of Critic (ILI). ILI is usually described as a skeptic and a pessimist. But if you come to ILI with your own pessimism and tell him “everything is bad, very bad, and there is no way out”, he will act conversely and try to show you the opposite side. On your pessimism and minus he will apply his own minus, and the end result will be a plus. He will say “yes things are bad, but here’s something good”. That is a negativist type always looks from a different side, conversely, looking at alternatives.
A positivist can be saying “every thing is good, it’s good, it’s good” but then suddenly something doesn’t work, he feels locked and falls into a negative state, because he can’t see alternatives. The main distinguishing feature here is not pessimism-optimism, but the ability to look at a situation from the other side.
ESE, for example, is not always happy. He can fall into a negative state and remain there for a long time if he’s not provided with an alternative. In this case the LII gives it to him - the LII analyzes the situation and shows that yes, this is not correct, this is not right, but over here it’s so and so, and it leads to this and this, and he redirects his dual.
Audience: And pessimism-optimism is related to the sign of Fe function?
V. Gulenko Conditionally I agree with you, but linking emotions should not be done to the sign. In everyday communication, there are social expectations - all people know, irrespective of their type, that they needs to show the good and hide the bad. Everyone knows about this. If we consider Fe, it will be associated with happiness or cheerfulness, although Fe is both joy and despair. The ESE will show joy and hide despair, but so will the EIE show joy and hide despair. However, the closer you become with a person, the more difficult it becomes to hide the sign. The minus starts to show more clearly. In society, everyone wishes to show plus signs and hide minus ones. We need to consider such nuances. It’s essential to take a look at this from inside a person, while from outside, a ethical type with Fe will demonstrate happiness, joy, despite the functional sign. But they might demonstrate this differently. For some, the negative emotions will shine through this happiness. Or there will be a mixture of positive and negative emotions, such as tragicomedy. For example Charlie Chaplin - his movies seem funny at first, but there is human suffering and tragedy hidden in them, so the result is a mixed emotion. The talent of dramatic genre belongs to type EIE, Mentor.
While melancholy and unhappiness is not minus-Fe. This is most likely Ni - that is, every function has its emotional equivalent - and if you are in the state of Ni, seeing how everything is developing over time, you come to realize, despite your type, that it all will eventually end - could this create happiness, the realization that we will all die?
Audience: But the Lyricist (IEI) is considered to be a positivist type …
V. Gulenko The IEI can extinguish his negativism with positivism, he knows how to leave and move away from the negative and focus on the positive. Lyricist in the state of -Ni feels melancholic, and if it is not supplemented by any positive emotions he can fall into a depression. Depression, sadness, despair - this is all Ni, and this is irrespective of the sign.
Right Types and Susceptibility to Suggestion¶
V. Gulenko In your opinions, why do people with right (process) type thinking are more given to suggestion and programming than people with left (result) thinking?
Audience: They are too focused on what they are doing … [inaudible]
V. Gulenko This is because it’s very difficult for them to return back. This requires much effort from them. If they already went in a certain direction, made a choice, then returning back for them is difficult. While for left (result) types, it is conversely difficult to always go forward. They are constantly being pulled to return, to loop back. Thus, Left types move in these spirals, back-and-forth [shows at 0:50]. How is this expressed in their thoughts and behavior? It is expressed in jerky, jumpy behavior. If you see that a person seems jerky or jumpy in their actions, it’s not always because they are nervous or scared. Simply that’s how he is. Take Master (SLI) for example - he is sitting, sitting, sitting, then suddenly he takes off and runs to somewhere. Who or what prompted him to do that? It would seem that there is this smooth flowing progression - if you came, tune into it, sit it through until the end - but no, the SLI has to disrupt the progression, tear up the program, and abruptly move elsewhere. All left (result) types act like this. The Lyricist (IEI) also makes these disruptions and tears in the program quite often. This is evidence of how thinking of left (result) types abruptly switches to something else, to another topic, often a previous or past one that they have forgotten about or put aside. Their thinking suddenly jumps to a side or loops back. Due to this, left (result) types are less susceptible to suggestion, or unstable towards “mental programming”, because they are inclined to tear or disrupt this program. Not because they want to - it’s simply how they are. Things are flowing, flowing, flowing - then suddenly there’s a disruption, they may return back - then again a flow - then another break or loopback. The right (process) types are more constant in their progression - if they have already made a choice, they may waver, oscillate, and doubt (point of bifurcation), but if they went in that direction they will continue progressing forward in it.
Audience: This can be called [inaudible] or how about [inaudible]…
V. Gulenko No, it cannot be tied to that. This isn’t related to ethical evaluations. What you speak of is good or bad for other people, and there’s no such a thing here. If a person suddenly takes off, he can come back, apologize, continue with the program or event. This is how it is.
It is exactly due to this that difficulties arise in understanding of right types by left types, and vice versa. The common thread of communication constantly disappears. When left (result) types communicate with right (process) types, it seems like “oh! I have understood him” and the conversation is flowing - then hop - and it all falls apart - then again, the forward flow is re-established. This is the kind of effect that arises when left (result) types and right (process) types communicate on an informational, intellectual level, talking about complicated information. This is an inevitable “evil” in communication of left and right types, that one is going according to the program, and the other periodically disrupts it. This is how it is.
This is especially clearly visible in Mirror types interaction. While Mirror types are from same quadra, they have shared values and attitudes, one of them is left (result) and the other is right (process). The very same situation they pose from different sides - one from the left side, the other from the right side. It becomes very clearly visible how they “tear” and disrupt each other’s programs. This constantly happens when I talk to, discuss some complicated topics with ILEs: he crosses over my program - I cross over his.
Audience: This is very interesting in communication …
V. Gulenko Yes, this can be productive for intellectual activity. But such constant losses of “shared thread” of conversation is characteristic for communication between left and right types.
Modesty and Demonstrativeness in 3rd Quadra¶
V. Gulenko And I’m glad that you have understood this, that modesty is of course primarily R (Fi) - ethics of relationships. Modest people are ethical, well-mannered, well brought up from ethics of relationships point of view, people who don’t try to stick out, to put themselves forward, but on the contrary hold themselves to some ethical standards and within some ethical frameworks.
When the period of 3rd quadra comes, however, it’s a time of individuality, of individual demonstrativeness, of putting yourself out there, of advertising yourself - it’s the time when you need to say, for applying for a work position: “I’m the best! I can do this and that and that …” And if you show yourself modestly, then nobody will hire you, right? It turns out that in 3rd quadra, where there is a hard and harsh competition for survival, modesty is perceived as an anti-value.
This is related, maybe, not to “centrality-peripherality” [decisive-judicious] of which we talked earlier, but to “aristocracy-democracy”. That is, individualism - saying “I! I! I!” - this is “democratic” quadra. In addition, 3rd quadra is a central one. Thus self-promotion, self-advertisement, putting yourself ahead, which is so widespread and in demand currently - this is 3rd quadra. While modesty is more for the “aristocratic” quadra. Even in the 2nd quadra this is so. The 2nd quadra doesn’t like it when someone tries to stick out. Although they have TIMs who know how to put themselves forward, others will disapprove and judge them for it. It’s not very “aristocratic” to talk of yourself loudly, to shout how you’re the coolest, how you can do this or that. “Aristocrat” - is something soulful, spiritual, where one should know his place, and if you are a nobody how can you go around talking about yourself, we shall evaluate you ourselves, and so on in the same key. But when “democratic” times come, one can advertise oneself on every corner - conversely, this is considered to be good.
Thus, this is related to 3rd quadra and R (Fi) - considerate, sensitive, modest, “a grey mouse”, that doesn’t try to stick out and claim the attention. As Olesia (from the audience) has written, and she was right on the point, that a modest person in 3rd quadra is like a grey mouse. You can’t “sell yourself” like this, right? You need to advertise and promote your “product”. Thus in 3rd quadra you need to shout that you are the best. Otherwise nobody will “buy”, nobody will invite you to work.
The 3rd quadra is the quadra of individual success. If an organization is created in 3rd quadra, this means that it’s temporary. There is no collectivism here. As long as it is beneficial and rewarding to them, they will stay in the organization or work group. If there is no benefit, there won’t be any group - they disperse and go elsewhere. Both the Entrepreneur (LIE) and the Politician (SEE) understand this very well. Nowadays you can gather a large group of people though social networking media for example, but can you keep them together for a long period of time? No, they will disperse and go about their own business. Thus, there is no collectivism currently in our lives. Everyone advertises themselves, puts themselves ahead, and tries to show that they are better than others, so invite him, take him, hire him, buy from him, even though the “product” is virtually the same for everyone. Thus it turns out that you need to show yourself off - and if you are modest nobody will approach you and “buy” from you.
Passionate Love Scenario¶
V. Gulenko We will begin this conversation on the topic of accentuation of Fe emotions and Ti structural logic. This is a compatible accentuation - it entails attraction towards each other, gradual closing of the distance, and fixation. What is this scenario called? People with accentuated Fe prefer the “Passionate love scenario”. They are exalted, or demonstrative, it doesn’t matter … they either want to be loved by others or to love themselves - “I am loved” or “I love”. And they want to love or to be loved demonstratively. For this reason they invest everything at attracting attention of the preferred sex to themselves. Very often they succeed in this, they manage this very well - through a kind of highlighting of various emotional parts in clothing, appearance, and so on.
An important moment here: If the accentuation is on -Fe, then “I am loved” is more important to them than “I love” (ESE, SEE). If the accentuation is on +Fe - this is exalted emotion, admiration of someone - then “I love”, exaltation, is more important than “I’m loved” (EIE, IEE).
Secondly, which functions are they compatible with? They are compatible with L, that is they come together and become fixated when they meet what kind of person? A person who is unemotional, mysterious, but intelligent, thoughtful, level-headed, and undemonstrative. This is called a “romantic scenario”. Usually, in the image of emotional exaltation or demonstrative beauty is a woman, while the man is cold-blooded, mysterious, closed off, introverted loner.
Audience: Like a lone wolf.
V. Gulenko A lone wolf. And they relate to each other poorly at first, but at some point fate brings them closer, they have go through some events together, and suddenly, in action, over common activities, it turns out that they are very supporting of each other, that they match each other like a key to a lock. In life such scenarios occur. A kind of exalted person, most often it’s considered to be a woman, but it can apply to a man - this kind of demonstratively good-looking man, who looks after his appearance, may be a “Narcissus”, artistic, women’s idol - he will be attracted to whom? To a woman who is strict, cold-blooded, pedantic. If they come together, they might become fixed on each other. Is this understandable? It’s this kind of a scenario. If you see such a scenario, this is the right course.
And of course a completely wrong scenario if you have one demonstrative person against another demonstrative person. This is a real mess. This is the worst scenario - they will blame each other and fault-find over anything. While two cold-blooded people simply can’t easily get close, because someone needs to warm them up. Rwo cold-blooded types, who behave like nobody around them exists, like they don’t need anybody, will struggle to become close and form a couple.
So consider that if someone is very talkative and demonstrative, he will immediately look for “and who is listening to me?”, “who is calmly listening to what I have to say?”, and then start telling things to that person. He almost immediately selects for this person, with accentuation in introverted logic - the person who seems obedient, good, reliable, and listens to whatever crazy stories and nonsense they are being told. The one who talks needs a listener. On structural logic this person is undemonstrative and thinks in this manner: “I don’t need anyone. Nobody pays attention to me. I am self-sufficient.” And suddenly this bright woman gives him her attention - imagine this! A kind of feeling arises: ” What is all this? But we are complete opposites. I’m so inconspicuous, secretive, dresses in grey or dark tones - and suddenly all this brightness came my way.”
But nature plays out this scenario at every step.
Audience: Peacocks, other birds …
V. Gulenko Yes, among birds the males are usually very bright and demonstrative, and females are like what? Dull, inconspicuous, brown or grey. This is exactly the same scenario of matching compatibility. But this is accentuated, so it’s very visible.
So use this. If you are accentuated on Fe, you will feel drawn to these closed off men-loners. And conversely, these men-loners will be like “Wow! This bright, unforgettable woman, who is so striking.” Something will spark right away.
This is a romantic scenario - I emphasize this - the most romantic one, which is often played out in literature and in cinema.
The Mission of TIM LSI¶
V. Gulenko: Another thing I’m going to add. The intellectual approach of Ti + Se is logic of facts. What is the “Inspector” like? He has little intuition, and distrusts any conjectures and assumptions. Facts are what he needs … Inspector is a person who trusts only facts. Though these facts may be made up or distorted, but that’s another conversation. So LSI makes decisions on basis of logic of facts.
If this is linked to comfort, it means prosperity through order … but less comfort, and more prosperity orientation. Inspector is a person who is for stability: “If we order everything, we will have prosperity and comfort.” This formula often works. If you remember some post-war restoration period … do you know of this? Only old people remember … After the war there is ruin and destitution, but order was introduced, everyone started to work, and prosperity grew at a very rapid pace. It would seem that the war was terrible, but prosperity was restored very quickly - because there was order. This is how it is: prosperity through order.
The Mission of TIM EIE¶
V. Gulenko: First thing I’m going to add - emotions are interpreted as motivation, because emotion is being able to motivate or move people to something. Thus, what we have here is a “motivating idea”. And secondly, if Fe is interpreted as energy, we have here: “energy of ability”. Let’s talk about this in more detail. This means that if people of this type “light up” with something, grab onto something, make it their goal and channel their energy into it, then what will happen? They will open up new and new abilities. As they say “If I want it, everything will work out”. The main thing is to “light up” with a goal. In other words, their emotions “turn on” their abilities. This can be called “energy of abilities”.
They can also mentor or coach other people, teach them how to do the same, create motivation in them, persuade them that they can reach their goals - and it actually happens, people start succeeding. The problem is when this energy “fuel” disappears, abilities disappear as well, because first comes Fe, first comes energy and only then comes motivation and high capacity to do work. This is why it is said: “If you truly want something, you will succeed” - this is the formula here.
About motivating ideas - they can be good or bad. As someone from the audience has said: dramatic. This is correct. They are often dramatic, because negative motivation works better on people, when they are being told “prepare now, or the end will come”. This is a negative stimulus. At first one may think “no, it won’t come”, but then they see this person has started getting ready, that person is preparing, and then everyone begins preparing and believing that this negative possibility exists. That is first you wind everybody up emotionally, and then this possibility becomes reality, in that everyone believe it will actually happen. Though they still don’t know what’s going to happen. That’s how it works.
Why Stalin Didn’t React¶
V. Gulenko: Tell me which types cannot or don’t know how to react in situations of unpredictability? When they are in a fog, don’t know what to do and get lost?
Audience: Inspector and Guardian (LSI and ESI).
V. Gulenko: That’s right. This is why their duals often take them by suddenness, out of the blue, by surprise, while they don’t understand what’s going on - their duals hop and take them, or get them involved, or instill some idea into them. That is, they orient poorly in situations of unclarity, ambiguity, fuzziness. That’s good that you already understand this.
Here is a historical example. Recall the situation at the beginning of WWII, many movies were filmed about this, about how many scouts and spies have reported to Stalin that a war is about to begin. Why, then, if he was informed about this, did he not take any measures, and USSR ended up being unprepared for war? It’s because Stalin was receiving contradictory reports - some saying the war will begin almost tomorrow, others saying it will start in over half a year, yet others reporting something completely different. He ended up in what kind of situation? A situation of lack of clarity, of uncertainty, thus he couldn’t make a decision.
Audience: So he decided to wait?
V. Gulenko: Well, it turns out like this.
Audience: But he should have taken some precautions.
V. Gulenko: That’s the thing, he should have but didn’t undertake anything, because he thought that this was a provocation. This indicates that the function is weak, he ended up in a situation of uncertainty. This is an example of a person getting lost in such situations.
While Hitler took him by surprise. This is exactly demonstrative intuition of time - by suddenness, by so called blitzkrieg - this is demonstrative Ni.